Because Occ - it's not the duty of TV to put people on trial that's the job of the courts.
Of course the media loves to keep us scared and in a state of fear. This state is more than probably welcomed by the legislatros so they can get their even more illiberal measures through parliament.
oh hither...thither......new responsibilities at work so haven't seen much of the programme lately. And what I have seen, it's not even bad in a 'so bad it's good' sort of way, it's just, well, .....bad!
This subject has been bothering me a lot lately; I have been on Jeremy Vine and local radio talking about the fact that it is high time that the Government stopped allowing thugs to have a free ride on the taxpayer. The so-called 'Jeremy Kyle' generation, jobless hopeless (and quite often toothless) have to be made to work. If they don't want to find work for themselves then I am sure their councils could get them involved with cleaning up the mess they have made etc. Jeremy Vine said to me on the subject of the mosquito, (that device employed outside shops with an irritating sound that only the young can hear, designed to stop them gathering etc.)
“Imagine me, an innocent 12 year old cycling down the street of my town doing no harm and being assaulted by the noise of one of these mosquitoes, what do you say to that?”
I said
“Tough! You better get used to the possibility of being assaulted, or worse being kicked to death outside your home like Garry Newlove, if you are not prepared to countenance any measures to tackle misbehaving youths.”
I really think that if nothing is done soon the streets are going to overrun by these packs of animals. I know that people will say even if you stop benefits for those unprepared to find work or do allocated tasks, they won’t do it,they will just steal. Then my answer would be to send them to boot camp or some version of national service. I don’t know if any of you saw any of the Lads or Bad Lads army programme? In those programmes those participating were in the main turned around, and that was in the glare of the cameras. It’s got to be worth a try hasn’t it?
You're right, we do need to be doing more to sort out the young people who seem to almost relish the attention they get from committing the most horrendous acts.
I know it is only a small number of people, however, the things they are getting up to are getting more and more sickening.
The three guys who killed Gary Newlove are a prime example of something so innocuous (a householder reprimanding a gang of children) escalating into something so terrible.
The fact that they will be out of prison before they are thirty with their whole lives ahead of them is beyond comprehension.
It just isn't what should be expected in a civilised society.
Wrong. The 19 years old got minimum 17 years. The 17 years old got minimum 15 years but the 16 years old got minimum 12, only he will be under 30 if he's released. The minimum means eligibilty for consideration for parole not automatic release. They were life sentences which means they would still be on licence, ie any misdemeanour could mean return to prison.
They will still be very young, not even close to middle-age when they come out of prison.
They will then probably have new names, be given plastic surgery and a new house (all at the tax payers expense) to save them from the angry mob.
I'm through with being understanding of broken homes and the general feeling sorry for the perpetrator of the crime and the forgetting of the the victims.
Fair enough, they should have some help to try and get some decent answers out of them as to "Why??!!" they could do something like this, even if it is just to drag something resembling some remorse out of them. However, this is a crime where they should chuck the key away.
Originally posted by Occasional Visitor: The fact that they will be out of prison before they are thirty with their whole lives ahead of them is beyond comprehension.
It just isn't what should be expected in a civilised society.
Thanks for acknowledging that the above is simply not true. And, it must be super to see into the future and know that they will be released upon the expiry of their minimum terms.
There was an interesting debate on Nicky Campbell’s show this morning on the subject of bringing back the death sentence. I don't know if that would really serve as a deterrent as I feel that when people are carrying out such horrendous crimes they are unlikely to be calculating the tariff or consequence of what they are doing. Red mist and all that. Far better to stop it happening in the first place, get them off the settee and the street corner and the Jeremy Kyle show and into work, chosen for them if necessary; with much more rigorous and physical attempts to rehabilitate those who continue to offend.
Originally posted by rothgar: Thanks for acknowledging that the above is simply not true.
And, it must be super to see into the future and know that they will be released upon the expiry of their minimum terms.
Don't be sarcastic, it doesn't suit you
I think what I am saying is true and with regards to the future, based on the current climate, I think an early release is very likely.
With regards to Amanda's point on the death penalty, I agree that even the possibility of something as drastic as that may not have stopped the murder of Gary Newlove.
We do need to be much tougher when things start going wrong. There was very likely a time when these murderers first got into trouble with the law and that's when the Police should have taken a stronger stance.
We don't, yet, sentence in anticipation of what future crime someone may commit. EG - Shoplifting at Woolworths? let me see, likely to be GBH in 5 years time, so give the bar steward 10 years now
Good to hear you have the Home Office figures for people released at the first moment of eligibility. Can you give me the source please. Thanks.
Originally posted by rothgar: We don't, yet, sentence in anticipation of what future crime someone may commit. EG - Shoplifting at Woolworths? let me see, likely to be GBH in 5 years time, so give the bar steward 10 years now
Good to hear you have the Home Office figures for people released at the first moment of eligibility. Can you give me the source please. Thanks.
I don't know what the current punishment is for shoplifting, but I doubt it is very much and that's my point. If it carried at the very least a massive fine, that would be paid by the thief's mother and/or father if needed, together with a week in jail, then there might be a chance of seeing something called "justice" being done.
Originally posted by amanda5653: This subject has been bothering me a lot lately; I have been on Jeremy Vine and local radio talking about the fact that it is high time that the Government stopped allowing thugs to have a free ride on the taxpayer. The so-called 'Jeremy Kyle' generation, jobless hopeless (and quite often toothless) have to be made to work. If they don't want to find work for themselves then I am sure their councils could get them involved with cleaning up the mess they have made etc. Jeremy Vine said to me on the subject of the mosquito, (that device employed outside shops with an irritating sound that only the young can hear, designed to stop them gathering etc.)
“Imagine me, an innocent 12 year old cycling down the street of my town doing no harm and being assaulted by the noise of one of these mosquitoes, what do you say to that?”
I said
“Tough! You better get used to the possibility of being assaulted, or worse being kicked to death outside your home like Garry Newlove, if you are not prepared to countenance any measures to tackle misbehaving youths.”
I really think that if nothing is done soon the streets are going to overrun by these packs of animals. I know that people will say even if you stop benefits for those unprepared to find work or do allocated tasks, they won’t do it,they will just steal. Then my answer would be to send them to boot camp or some version of national service. I don’t know if any of you saw any of the Lads or Bad Lads army programme? In those programmes those participating were in the main turned around, and that was in the glare of the cameras. It’s got to be worth a try hasn’t it?
When you say you were on the Jeremy Vine Show, you mean you phoned in, right? I think I heard you...on their website, on the relevant day... to do with youth crime.
You mentioned, in a later post here, that on Nicky Campbell's show there was an "interesting debate... on the subject of bringing back the death sentence".
What was said, Amanda? Personally, I can't believe that people are still having that conversation. I understand that the subject of youth crime in our cities - the increasing stabbings, shootings, etc - is one that needs to be talked about. But I wondered what capital punishment had to do with it all.
When you say you were on the Jeremy Vine Show, you mean you phoned in, right? I think I heard you...on their website, on the relevant day... to do with youth crime.
You mentioned, in a later post here, that on Nicky Campbell's show there was an "interesting debate... on the subject of bringing back the death sentence".
What was said, Amanda? Personally, I can't believe that people are still having that conversation. I understand that the subject of youth crime in our cities - the increasing stabbings, shootings, etc - is one that needs to be talked about. But I wondered what capital punishment had to do with it all.
I agree that the death penalty discussion should remain a closed one as it just hijacks the debate starts to make out people to be something that they may not be necessarily.
I never have and never will be in favour of it and yet when anyone starts to have a view on the justice system in general, all kinds of assumptions are made and conclusions jumped too.
It's as though you have to agree with current situation or you're labelled as an extremist of some kind for wanting change.
You mentioned, in a later post here, that on Nicky Campbell's show there was an "interesting debate... on the subject of bringing back the death sentence".
What was said, Amanda? Personally, I can't believe that people are still having that conversation. I understand that the subject of youth crime in our cities - the increasing stabbings, shootings, etc - is one that needs to be talked about. But I wondered what capital punishment had to do with it all.[/QUOTE]
There were a couple of people there who had lost people to youth crime, knifings etc. and a couple of religious leaders. The debate was that one of the mothers who had lost her son said she would like the people who did it killed, Another point was that it would be better if killers were imprisoned hopeless of release or a return to normal life. Others said that would be good if we thought that was what went on but it was feared that prison was not the harsh environment it should be and that a life tariff was mostly unlikely to actually involve a real life sentence. One of those present pointed out that in the USA where some states have death penalties they are still killing each other like crazy so it is obviously not a deterrent, in that case it would be just on the eye for an eye premise that a life was taken as punishment
