Originally posted by Phantom physicist: Absolutely not!
Why not? I think the discipline in schools nowadays is a joke. It's actually only 12 years since I left school but even then there was more respect for teachers (also even a wee bit fear of them) than there is now. We had fairly strict school rules which had to be obeyed. If we were caught without our proper uniform or wearing make up, we were in trouble! When I see pupils (esp girls) from my old school now, I find it really sad. They go to school dressed as if they were going for a night out.. I even saw one the other day with stilletos on; we would have been shot. I know I sound really old fashioned and prudish (which I'm not) but I really can't stand the majority of schoolchildren now. They have no respect for anybody.. they seem to think it's cool to be smart mouthed and most seem to be grown up before their time. In fact now we're on the subject, not only should we have stricter schools, I think national service should be reintroduced for the boys!
National service sounds a bit extreme - there's clearly an issue with discipline but surely that's down to the family and how they raise their kids - it's not down to teachers to tell pupils about moral standards, they have a hard enough time getting them to learn the cirriculum. Having said, that, if you look at the pupil profiles, several suggest that more discipline would have benefitted them at school so maybe you're on to something...
some of the aspects were good and I learnt not to do something wrong again with the punishments ( im the girl hu had to hold books on my arms!) but not all of the aspects were suitable
Originally posted by dunceboy: National service sounds a bit extreme - there's clearly an issue with discipline but surely that's down to the family and how they raise their kids - it's not down to teachers to tell pupils about moral standards, they have a hard enough time getting them to learn the cirriculum. Having said, that, if you look at the pupil profiles, several suggest that more discipline would have benefitted them at school so maybe you're on to something...
I agree that it's largely down to the family how a child is brought up, but even the saintliest child can turn into a little teenage demon. If these teenagers are getting away with insolence and cheek at school, they will bring that attitude home with them and everyone suffers. I remember my friend made me smirk whilst I was being told off for something by the assistant rector.... big mistake. I was marched to his office and ROARED at, and I mean roared. His face was so close to mine, he was spitting on me and I could smell his lunch! I was shaking for about an hour. That just wouldn't happen nowadays. Schoolkids have no fear of anyone or anything; if we were up to a little no good when younger, the sight of an adult, whether it was a teacher, the police or just a "grown up", we would all scarper pronto. I was no little angel as a teenager, but had respect for my elders, especially my parents, but there doesn't seem to be any respect left anymore and it is tragic that teachers are having more amore of their disciplinary authority taken away from them!
[/QUOTE]I was no little angel as a teenager, but had respect for my elders, especially my parents, but there doesn't seem to be any respect left anymore and it is tragic that teachers are having more amore of their disciplinary authority taken away from them![/QUOTE]
Do you think that's the case - teachers have their hands tied so they can't actually use discipline as they'd like? I know kids are losing the plot these days - throwing chairs around and the rest of it but do you think some people just aren't cut out for teaching (half my teachers could barely communicate on a humna level) or is that defeatist? Should a school environment be created whereby anyone, regardless of how good they are at coping with unruly pupils or even unruly ones, be able to take up the occupation. Is the situation even reversable?
I was no little angel as a teenager, but had respect for my elders, especially my parents, but there doesn't seem to be any respect left anymore and it is tragic that teachers are having more amore of their disciplinary authority taken away from them![/QUOTE]
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Do you think that's the case - teachers have their hands tied so they can't actually use discipline as they'd like? I know kids are losing the plot these days - throwing chairs around and the rest of it but do you think some people just aren't cut out for teaching (half my teachers could barely communicate on a humna level) or is that defeatist? Should a school environment be created whereby anyone, regardless of how good they are at coping with unruly pupils or even unruly ones, be able to take up the occupation. Is the situation even reversable?
I do agree that not all people are suited to secondary school teaching; I used to have the most pathetic English teacher.Her voice used to shake when trying to get everyone to settle during her lesson and everyone used to talk over her and she would walk out in tears. I used to feel really sorry for her. She has since had a nervous breakdown and no longer teaches. My cousin is a primary school teacher and according to her, teachers hands are now tied when it comes to discipline; there are so many rules re what a teacher can't say or do. Teachers live in fear now of being up on some sort of ridiculous charge of cruelty or assault or worse! My primary 7 teacher (who was a complete witch!) used to literally pull folk by the ear if she was raging.. Imagine a teacher even having any contact with a pupil nowadays?? shock horror..
I don't bvelieve that everyone can be a teacher but I also don't believe that all good teachers are 'born' disciplinarians. You can learn good 'classroom management' too. Most important is to gain your students trust and respect. Consistency is the key and almost as important is that you are confident of your right and responsibility to rule your own classroom.
All of this is not much use in the face of some disturbed undividuals but in the main it is enough to create a critical mass off acceptable behaviour.
The trouble with a lack of discipline for youngsters has much further ramifications than order in the classroom. The kids are in danger of growing up thinking it's all right to do just what they want and this can lead to anti-social behavior and lawlessness in adult life. School is not the only place where there are rules! Strict discipline in school in my schooldays sent us out into the world realising that there were laws to be obeyed and that other people and their property were to be respected.
I went to boarding school where even seeing a senior pupil could have u shaking in ur shoes. Still i grew up to have respect for my elders, property etc. I too cannot stand most kids today and im only 25! I agree with bringing back national service. What some of these kids need is a healthy respect for their country and a bit of real discipline!
at my school, i think they seem to be doing things the wrong way around. the kids who are naughty and disruptive seem to get benefits such as going out on day trips etc. probably because the school cant cope with them, whereas the good kids who want to get on get less attention. surely this is just encouraging the kids who cant be bothered, i know this is the case at my school and i think it should be the other way around, so that kids who work hard get rewarded for their efforts and this will also give the bad kids some incentive to try and behave
Life's not short....its the longest thing you will ever have
I can understand both sides of this argument. I certainly believe the discipline policy in schools in this country is appalling but i dont agree with national service and coporal punishment.
Children and parents have lost respect for teachers, it comes to something when a parent was called in for his four year old son who had told his teacher to "F**k off you b***h!" The parent replied, "Well what's your problem with that then? What had she done?"
************************************************************************ I'm fed up with being the best friend, I need to get meself some gumption and be the leading lady!
Originally posted by little_angel_05: at my school, i think they seem to be doing things the wrong way around. the kids who are naughty and disruptive seem to get benefits such as going out on day trips etc. probably because the school cant cope with them, whereas the good kids who want to get on get less attention. surely this is just encouraging the kids who cant be bothered, i know this is the case at my school and i think it should be the other way around, so that kids who work hard get rewarded for their efforts and this will also give the bad kids some incentive to try and behave
That's a very good point. In my school it seems that consistancy isn't recognised. The most distrubtive kids seemed to be rewarded for little effort if it is an improvement. There is little reward for consistant good behaviour. This means there is little incentive to carry on in the same manor.
It appears to me that the ones who need some lessons from the 1950s are not so much our youngsters but the nutters at the top who are making such a mess of our educational system!
My school was very like this, stuck in the '50's, even though I left in 1976.
Regarding the disciplinary thing, there were some teachers who tried to be disciplinarians, and got absolutely no respect from the pupils, and those who were not who did One teacher who did have respect occasionally taught while walking around on top of the desks, and one who tried to be a discipliarian had no control over his classes at all, one class locking him in a store cupboard and pushing a piano against the door! Or was the lack of respect because he was a music teacher?...
======================= Why don´t sheep shrink in the rain? =======================
My school was very similar as well and I left in 1979. Because it was a girls school the cane wasn't allowed but if you got a detention it was for an hour and not a minute less. None of this 5 or ten minute lark.
The worst thing a teacher could threaten though was a letter home. The thought of that was enough to make everyone behave.
To those calling for a return to National Service: You are aware that such a return would, in times like these, end up with a generation of our young men being fed into the Iraq mincer as part of Bush and Blair's oil crusade, no? Besides which, if you are instituting measures in education then it has to be applied to both genders, not just the boys. Or are you going to say that gender equality is a lie? Incidentally, who do you think would suffer most during National Service? I can tell you right now that it would not be the 'chav' demographic, but would rather be the bookish, the overweight, the unfit. The young, aggressive chavs who cause all the trouble would only have to learn to stand upright and shout 'yes sir', whilst the aforementioned would be bullied, beaten and humilated for their failings because they are not built for military service. So in trying to bring discipline to the worst kids they would victimise and potentially destroy the lads who have done nothing wrong and rarely, of ever, caused trouble in school and society. National Service might be a decent form of court-assigned punishment for young offenders (of both genders), but it should never be used as a catch-all solution for a generation.
As for corporal punishment, personally I think that it should be reinstituted. Whilst it is true that parents are doing much of the damage, what you must understand is that most of these parents are products of the indiscipline which permeats our society thanks to the liberalisation of education back in the 70s and 80s: They may be beyond hope, but the children are not. If corporal punishment were reinstituted then it would bring discipline back into the classroom and would enforce respect for authority during the formative years. Personally I think that it should be used as a form of punishment in policing for petty juvenile crime. What would the end result be? Well, in some cases it may cause conflict and problems, but overall it would restore fear and respect for authority into British youth. The mixed messages from their parents would fail to affect them in society because there they would tow the line because of real consequences.
thanks lol
